Comments on: Layups: Chuck Klosterman/Bill Simmons Podcast on LeBron http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155 NBA & ABA Basketball Statistics & History Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:56:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Phil http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155&cpage=1#comment-22380 Sun, 08 Aug 2010 23:38:32 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155#comment-22380 About 12 years ago, David Halberstam wrote a book called, Playing for Keeps. It was roughly a biography of Michael Jordan and the culture surrounding him. Superb book. In it, Halberstam details how MJ and others felt a sense of obligation to the team that drafted them and the city. They were all caretakers to the game. This book, written while Lebron was in junior high, detailed the passion and competitive fire of MJ, as well as his loyalty. MJ couldn't stand Jerry Krause, was surrounded by Sam Vincent, Brad Sellers, and an endless supply of backup centers, and yet, he signed an 8 year extension in 1987/88.

People need to wake up to the notion that there were more prideful and noble sportsmen 20 years ago. People also need to start realizing that arrogance off the court does not equal confidence on it. LBJ's handling of things may display a brash cockiness, but it shows an abundance of insecurity of his abilities ON the court. And he's a basketball player by occupation, so his on-the-court confidence and integrity is all that matters to me as a fan.

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By: P Middy http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155&cpage=1#comment-22161 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 15:30:34 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155#comment-22161 addendum: Personally, I dislike "true fans." Any ideology that clouds reason and objectiveness has no place in my life. I don't think you can be a "true fan" of one team, and be a true fan of the sport, because you will always put the good of one part ahead of the good of the whole.

Not that it matters much. We are talking about pro hoops here :)

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By: P Middy http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155&cpage=1#comment-22160 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 15:28:11 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155#comment-22160 Well, you won't get much argument there, Mo. I don't reckon anyone thinks The Decision was a good idea. Maybe the Boys & Girls club and LeBron and his posse. Otherwise, the damning of that move has been so universal, there has been no discussion of it.

However, in my opinion, too many people have transferred their dislike of that event directly to the free agent move itself. Not to mention all the arm-chair psycho-babble about his manliness and the time-machine predictions of LeBron's career (which is a mere 1/3 of the way through) going down the tubes.

At the center of Klosterman's argument is that LeBron's free agent move, like everything else he's done since hitting the spotlight, has been about himself. Getting what he wants, when we wants it, how he wants it. He doesn't care about the fans, the franchises, or much anything else but himself and his people. Personally, I'm not inclined to celebrate that aspect of his personality, but I think Klosterman is right on. Those so-called responsibilities that "true fans (see my post above)" shove on athletes - LeBron cares nothing for them. Whether that's confidence, cold-heartedness, or both, I do not know.

And has been pointed out before, numerous times, which one of us would pass up a correlating opportunity in our lives due to loyalty to our current employer and their customers? Hell, what employer would expect that of us?

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By: Mo http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155&cpage=1#comment-22154 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 14:30:54 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155#comment-22154 Marparker,

I understood Klosterman's point. However, the offseason actions of Lebron seem to be similar to that guy who responds to, "So and so is really smart" with "But I have an excellent theory on finding the Higgs Boson particle". Yeah he may be good, he's extraordinarily insecure. I think a lot of Lebron's offseason actions are probably due more to the incompetence of LRMR than a conscious eff you. I don't have a problem with what he did in Miami, but rather the way.

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By: marparker http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155&cpage=1#comment-22153 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 13:59:36 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155#comment-22153 Mo (williams?),
Klostermann's point was that Lebron isn't afraid to do things that bring him under scrutiny. He wears Yankee hats in Cleveland, he dunks on little kids, he doesn't give a F what you or me think. IMO, thats true confidence because he eschewing the need for followers. He doesn't need to be liked.

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By: Mo http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155&cpage=1#comment-22099 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:51:04 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155#comment-22099 If Lebron was as secure as Klosterman implies, he wouldn't own a shirt that says "Check My Stats". Nothing about the way Lebron has carried himself in this offseason indicates to me that he's confident, but rather the opposite.

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By: P Middy http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155&cpage=1#comment-22087 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 15:16:24 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155#comment-22087 It's been interesting listening to Simmons go from being completely down on LeBron for moving to the Miami Heat, to slowly understanding what it means to have 3 players of that caliber on one team. I've noticed the same narrative shift going on in message boards like this, tv commentary, blog posts, and news columns. Klosterman, on the other hand, seems like he's been on-board with the move for some time now.

As Simmons and Klosterman astutely point out that this has to do with their individual stances as emotional and "atheist" sports fans. There are many, many hardcore sports fans in places like Boston, Chicago, New York, Pittsburgh, Phili, the list goes on and on. For many years they have carried the cache of being "the true fans." They were defined by loyalty and obsession.

Sports (and in particular ESPN) has perpetuated the idea of them being "the true fans," because they are most likely to watch sporting events, most likely to buy tickets, merchandise, and create buzz among their peers. But just as great players have lost sense of permanently tied to an organization, more and more fans have gone "atheist," like Klosterman.

And I can certainly identify. The last time I cried because of a sporting event was when the Blazers lost to the Bulls in 92. I was 13. But even then, it was because of a player and not the team. Clyde was and is my favorite of all time. After that heartbreak, I learned to grow a (in my opinion) healthy distance between my emotions and sports.

Of course there are exceptions. They are on the cusp of sports, but I cried when Guerrero and Benoit died. Or when Mohammad Ali lit the Olympic Torch. But those moments transcend sports.

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By: marparker http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155&cpage=1#comment-22083 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 11:21:03 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155#comment-22083 I like to see things that have never happened before. I'm rooting for the first player-gm trio to stick it to the league, players, and fans. I'm sick of great players depending on owners to hire competent gms. Playing for sorry GM's his whole career we never got to see what Kevin Garnett was capable of. We called him sorry and soft. Turns out he might have gone down as an all time great if not for Kevin McHale. There are too many other similar situations to count, but it happens too often. I appluad Lebron for taking the decision out of someone else's hands. Imagine a world where we get drafted by financial planners. How many of you would willingly stick with Bernie Madoff when your contact was up? How many of you would run straight to Warren Buffet if he had a spot open? How many of your peers would be jealous of your luck?

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By: Jake http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155&cpage=1#comment-22078 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 07:19:16 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155#comment-22078 Exactly, Dan. Anyone in LeBron's situation would have done the exact same thing. "You mean I can leave this shit hole Cleveland, live in Miami, party with naked waitresses at clubs, and play with my friends? Or, I can stay in cold, gross Ohio and run with Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao and Boobie Gibson again while I pretend not to plot their murders for keeping Delonte West's affair with my mom from me. I think I'll be taking my talents to South Beach, thank you."

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By: Dan http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155&cpage=1#comment-22050 Wed, 04 Aug 2010 21:35:12 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7155#comment-22050 I wonder how many people who bash LeBron for switching teams feel just as loyal to their own (current) employers...who wouldn't want to have a job that requires you to play b-ball with some of your best friends? Who happen to be some of the best in the game?

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