Comments on: Layups: Block Recovery % http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647 NBA & ABA Basketball Statistics & History Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:56:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Sean http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647&cpage=1#comment-40302 Fri, 21 Jan 2011 04:28:29 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647#comment-40302 Matt,

Russell might not get credit beyond a block, but his team (a teammate) will get credit for a defensive rebound and if it is a good outlet pass that leads to a basket, then a teammate also gets an assist. AYC is arguing that the team effort is reflected accurately in the statistics, and I guess he's right. However, it's true that Russell's individual contribution to the team effort is not accurately reflected by these stats.

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By: Sean http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647&cpage=1#comment-40301 Fri, 21 Jan 2011 04:22:59 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647#comment-40301 P Middy is right. It is a team rebound for the team that shot the ball.

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By: P Middy http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647&cpage=1#comment-40268 Fri, 21 Jan 2011 00:51:06 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647#comment-40268 If it is blocked out of bounds it does not become a team offensive rebound?

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By: AYC http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647&cpage=1#comment-40265 Fri, 21 Jan 2011 00:06:16 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647#comment-40265 One of the tenets of advanced statdom is that when two teams play they use basically the same number of possessions. That's why shooting efficiency matters so much; if the number of possessions is the same, then winning is largely determined by how efficiently you shoot the ball relative to your opponent. The value in a block doesn't come from creating a new possession, it comes from ensuring an opponent's field goal attempt doesn't become a made field goal.

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By: Nick http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647&cpage=1#comment-40252 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:50:39 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647#comment-40252 @AYC:

If a ball is blocked out of bounds it is absolutely not recorded in the box score in any way, shape, or form beyond as a block.

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By: Matt Johnson http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647&cpage=1#comment-40241 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:58:06 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647#comment-40241 Re: AYC.

The reason the name "Bill Russell statistic" has been used is because Russell expressed that when he blocked shots he made a point to block them to teammates to kickstart fast breaks. How can it be debatable whether Russell's single action here is more valuable than if he simply blocked the ball back to an opponent?

If you want to say that Russell's action is really a block + a defensive rebound + a good outlet pass and that his block component is no different from anyone else's, okay - but you and I both know that Russell's only going to get scorekeeper credit for the block, and thus not all occasions where the scorekeeper marks "block" indicate identical value contributed.

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By: AYC http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647&cpage=1#comment-40233 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:24:07 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647#comment-40233 You're still missing my point. The negative effect of not recovering a block is already reflected in the box score, in the form of an offensive rebound and whatever points are scored off the Orb. But the value of a block in itself doesn't change either way.

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By: Nick http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647&cpage=1#comment-40229 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 19:58:57 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647#comment-40229 @AYC: Yeah, but if the shooting team recovers it creates a new possession for the opposing team, which is clearly less valuable than creating one for your own team. Blocks that go to your team are essentially steals, and really ought to be treated as such. Blocks that don't are really just general defense that runs down the shot clock, not any more valuable than tight defense that prevents the shot from being taken at all.

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By: AYC http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647&cpage=1#comment-40206 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:32:24 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647#comment-40206 If each FG attempt qualifies as a possession, than a block creates a new possession too, even if the shooting team recovers.

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By: P Middy http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647&cpage=1#comment-40205 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:32:22 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8647#comment-40205 Per player, it would be cool to see percentages of blocks followed by a FG by opposing team. Or LVBs.

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