Comments on: The Moral of the Story: Humans and Computers Both Suck at Predicting http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741 NBA & ABA Basketball Statistics & History Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:56:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: huevonkiller http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741&cpage=1#comment-51847 Mon, 11 Jul 2011 06:35:00 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741#comment-51847 Second most minutes, sorry. :d

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By: huevonkiller http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741&cpage=1#comment-51831 Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:28:00 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741#comment-51831 #29

Pau Gasol played the most minutes of his career, he's on the wrong side of 30, and was complaining about fatigue throughout the season. I've been critical of Phil Jackson's coaching the past few years, and he failed this time like he has in other instances (Fisher, Smush parker, Luke Walton, no Shannon, etc.). With the depth LA had there's no reason to put Pau out there that much. No need to downplay your own site, this place did a fine job of supporting my notion about health.

I know a huge Laker fan that said they would get dominated and lose easily.... Simply because Pau and Kobe looked done. It is that simple, you shouldn't overlook that factor Neil. That isn't gut based, their statistical decline is tangible in the first round. Life isn't completely fair and people get injured at the wrong time, or play too many minutes, or whatever.

Dallas was the best team in the NBA when healthy, the stats clearly showed that before the Finals and through the post-season. It didn't help Mike Bibby had the lowest playoff PER ever, also that Miami had much more wear on them with their attacking playing style and high MPG. Lastly, James Jones was Miami's fourth best player this season and he didn't get on the court at all.

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By: marparker http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741&cpage=1#comment-51814 Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:50:39 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741#comment-51814 Hoops,

in 07-08 Cleveland had 6 of the top 8.

in 09-10 Dallas and Cleveland had each spot in the top 7 with Cleveland having 4 of the players

However, in 08-09 Lakers had 3 of the top 6. Cleveland shared the other 3 spots.

In the end I'm not sure what that tells us.

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By: Hoops Maestro http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741&cpage=1#comment-51801 Sat, 09 Jul 2011 06:25:16 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741#comment-51801 Another clear statistical clue that Dallas was going to do very, very well in the playoffs:

Go to 82 games dot com, and look at their clutch stats for 2010-11. Then sort by the +/- per 48 minutes. The results will astound you.

Dirk, Marion, Kidd, Chandler, and Terry are 5 of the top 6 players! No other team has any result remotely close to this. This unit was remarkably efficient in the clutch -- perhaps to an unprecedented degree. I've never seen anything like it before. This wasn't a fluke sample either -- it covered 36 to 48 games, including 77 to 154 minutes of "clutch" time production.

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By: Hoops Maestro http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741&cpage=1#comment-51800 Sat, 09 Jul 2011 06:16:45 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741#comment-51800 You can't say "nobody" predicted the Dallas victory. Maybe no one in the national media. I predicted a Dallas-Miami Finals last summer after LeBron joined the Heat. (It's on the message boards at NBA Draft dot net somewhere.) Dallas had the deepest team in the NBA, and one of the most unstoppable players, and one of the best coaches. The Mavs had two solid centers, deadly outside shooting, and a few good perimeter defenders, and shot free throws exceptionally well.

Portland was coming off recent trades and several injuries to key players. LA was getting old and playing poorly. Oklahoma City was too young and inexperienced. Miami was a top heavy team that had only been together for one season, and was weak at the key positions of PG and C.

The Mavs were the best team in the NBA last season, but people wrote them off because of their previous recent playoff flops.

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By: DanielSong39 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741&cpage=1#comment-51793 Fri, 08 Jul 2011 21:52:23 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741#comment-51793 There's really only one objective way to measure predictive success: use human and computer predictions to play in-running futures markets over the course of the regular season and playoffs.

The proof is in the pudding and a good computer predictor will end up in the plus column over the long run.

As for human predictors, most people will lose money in the betting markets but a small percentage of humans are good enough to win year after year. I can attest to this through personal experience.

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By: Ashish http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741&cpage=1#comment-51778 Fri, 08 Jul 2011 13:37:07 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741#comment-51778 It just means the computers weighed stats improperly. I personally picked Dallas over Boston by looking at SRS weighted more heavily towards the starting lineup, since starters usually have a bigger impact in the playoffs.

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By: David http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741&cpage=1#comment-51762 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 21:59:00 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741#comment-51762 Neil, he actually used the combined model. A variant of the DBerri WOW stuff I believe. The commentary is just color really. When I read his stuff I just skim the pictures and commentary and go for the tables. I wonder how a meta-algorithm would have fared. You know, just take the mean/median prediction. In my work these types of "models" are typically best (smallest bias, lowest RMSE). I also used post-break numbers and went down in flames. But that was a conscious choice. But the teams were not who we thought they were (to channel Denny Green). So some split was needed, but which one? For DAL is seems to be Dirk. For the rest?

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By: marparker http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741&cpage=1#comment-51759 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:32:56 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741#comment-51759 Neil,

I'm not trying to make a hero out of the man. I'm putting out there was a "computer" which saw this whole thing playing out like it did.

I'm of the mindset that there is a perfect model out there that is yet undiscovered.I liked arturo's work this postseason. Even if the model had Miami in 7, it provided some pretty good insight along the way. I like his reverse engineering concept. I think that is a huge step in the right direction.

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By: Neil Paine http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741&cpage=1#comment-51756 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:17:41 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9741#comment-51756 #28 - Not to take anything away from his picks, but it seems like his "model" was more art than science -- he basically picked and chose when to use the full-season vs. post-break numbers, even saying before the Finals:

"I’m putting my faith in what Dallas has done lately and trusting the post All Star Break and playoff numbers."

Faith is definitely not science. In fact, science said "form is overrated", that there was no correlation between late-season performance and playoff success:

http://skepticalsports.com/?p=1246

Dallas, with its scorching 2nd half, happened to be the exception to that rule.

(And of course, I was guilty of over-weighting late-season games at times during the Stat Geek Smackdown as well. But I never claimed my picks were anything but gut calls merely informed by the stats... And that's the problem with injecting gut calls into a system -- there's no way to predict ahead of time whether the human interference will add or subtract from the accuracy.)

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