Comments on: Keltner List: Allen Iverson http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385 NBA & ABA Basketball Statistics & History Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:56:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: kolb http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385&cpage=1#comment-37073 Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:03:14 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385#comment-37073 kevin

ai is the best at the position at his time he was compared to mj. kobe was just a kid at that time and iverson was at his best years which is why he won mvp. let explain what mvp means "most valuable player"

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By: kgo tv http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385&cpage=1#comment-31271 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 04:51:02 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385#comment-31271 Iverson, along with some others, was probably responsible for the leagues dress code. Not an on court rule change, but a change nevertheless. How about a Keltner list for Tim Hardaway and Chris Mullin? Mullin has been a finalist the last couple years.

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By: TRX http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385&cpage=1#comment-24525 Thu, 16 Sep 2010 13:33:41 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385#comment-24525 Although that was the point... Iverson wanted to shoot all the time, so they built a defensive team with a low offensive usage to compliment his "style" of play, not the other way around.

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By: john dough http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385&cpage=1#comment-15963 Fri, 09 Apr 2010 13:59:38 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385#comment-15963 if Iverson didn't "jack up" so many shots who else would the 76ers turn to on offense?? they would probably miss the playoffs just about every year, w/o iverson they would be considered absolutely the worst offensive team in many many years

they had stackhouse for a season or 2, and stacks had about the same efficiency as AI at 6 inches taller...coleman? he was pretty much done when he joined...big dog robinson? basically done...webber? about done...you can't expect guys like deke, snow, or mckie to carry the socring load or take the important shots

no single player was as important to his team's offense as iverson was in some seasons...meaning, the team had no shot of succeeding w/o him....

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By: Shaka http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385&cpage=1#comment-15148 Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:16:40 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385#comment-15148 It amazes me how so many people hate on AI. Is Kobe a HOF? Yes and this is despite the fact that he, while bieng investigated for rape, mentioned another man's name who had nothing to do with the situation. Jordan was not liked by most of his teammates. In 2000-2001 he was hands down the MVP because of his play and impact on his team. Only Lebron James has taken a less-talented team to the Finals (2007) so I am not sure why this is even an argument. Like him as a person or not...AI changed the game of basketball forever...

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By: Dave http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385&cpage=1#comment-14818 Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:00:38 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385#comment-14818 Did AI run over your dog or something, Kevin?

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By: kevin http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385&cpage=1#comment-13711 Tue, 22 Dec 2009 03:35:26 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385#comment-13711 Neil let me redo this for you:

1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in basketball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in basketball?

Yes. People who don't know anything about basketball thought he was the best because he scored a lot of points. However, the coaches he had were driven crazy by his lack of discipline and his questionable decision making and the teams he was on had trouble winning.

2. Was he the best player on his team?

Sometimes he was. But the teams he was on were generally pretty crappy. he was competing with people like Theo Ratliff, Kyle Korver and Eric Snow. Once the Sixers got Mutombo, he was no longer the best player. I mean, Bob Rule was the best player on the 1969 Sonics and I don't hear anyone clamoring to get him in the HoF.

3. Was he the best player in basketball at his position?

Well, they tried to make a point guard out of him and that experiment was a miserable failure so we'll have to compare him to the league's other 2's. The first year Iverson made the AS team was in 1999. The other 2's in that game were Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant and Michael Finley. Miller was a few years older than Iverson while Allena nd Kobe are his contemporaries. Kobe, Allen and Miller were both better players than Iverson was. For instance, Iverson's best year, by far, was 2001. He garnered 11.8 Win Shares that year. That was just an average year for Miller and he beat that mark 4 times in his career. That same year, Allen had 13.7 Win Shares. Both crush Iverson in career Win Shares. We already know about Kobe. So no, if you're not the best at your position in your best year, a year that was a positive outlier for you, then you can't be considered the best at your position.

4. Did he have an impact on a number of NBA Finals or Conference Finals?

He had one run at a title but got rolled in 5 games so the answer has to be "no".

5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime?

He was good enough to start on a crappy Detroit team at the age of 33 but the only reason they got him was so they could dump his salary and gain cap space. At the age of 34, he wasn't good enough to start for a crappy Memphis team. In fact, he was so bad, Memphis was willing to release him rather than concede to his demand to start and play more. Denver also got a lot worse when they traded for Iverson. If we expand this questiomn a bit and phrase it as " Was Iversofn a productive player past his prime?", the answer would have to be "No.".

6. Is he the very best (eligible) basketball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?

No even close.

7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame?

Well, the players he is most like are guys World B Free, Charlie Scott, Stephon Marbury and Stevie Francis, all 1's who wanted to shoot like 2's. None of those guys aren't in, or have any hope of going in the hall.

8. Do the player’s numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?

It depends on what standards you use. If the standards are gross totals, then he meets the standards. If the standards are efficiency based or Wins based, then no, he doesn't.

9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?

Well, how about nobody wants him on their team when he is still injury-free and supposedly young enough to contribute? What does that say about his value?

10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame?

No. Dennis Johnson is eligible and was twice the player Iverson ever dreamt of being. For instance, the weakest part of Johnson's game was his shooting. Dj's shooting just crushes Iverson's, which is supposed to be the BEST part of his game:

Johnson Iverson

.445 .425
.172 .313
.797 .780

The only advantage Iversofn has on Johnson in shooting is 3's and even that's deceptive as DJ hardly took any 3's, mostly desperation shots when the clock was running out. Iverson shot a lot of them and was below average in accuracy.

11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?

Iverson inexplicably won in 2001. This was a year in which he didn't even finish in the top 7 in Win Shares. So, I suppose the proper answer should be, even though he won an MVP award, he never had an MVP-Type season. Iverson was easily the worst player who ever won an MVP award, in any sport.

12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame?

Iverson played in 10 AS games. This is misleading, however, since he only had maybe 2 or 3 years that were good enough to merit AS consideration and even that is questionable. For instance, he made the 2009 AS team despite only garnering 2.9 Win Shares. Iverson was 7th on his team in Win Shares, yet still made the AS team. Jason Maxiel had 4.1 Win Shares while playing 500 less minutes. Amir Johnson had the same number of Win Shares while playing half the minutes yet Iverson still made the AS team while Amir Johnson got to watch at home. Explain that to me please?

13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win an NBA title?

No. It would be impossible for a team that feature Iverson as their best player win a title. It was a damn near miracle that the 2001 Sixers even made it into the Finals.

14. What impact did the player have on basketball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? Was his college and/or international career especially noteworthy?

Iverson popularized the notion of style over substance. He also was the leading exponent of the "shoot first point guard" experiment that was tried and failed in the late nineties/early 200s. Others in the group are Stevie Francis and Stephon Marbury. He also was famous for disparaging practice as a means of refining one's game, staying sharp and demonstrating leadership, another failed experiment. In fact, if there was one thing Iverson can be remembered for is the variety of ways he demonstrated failure, both on and off the court.

The Verdict: Iverson has a personality that is impossible to fit into a cohesive group. He's rebellious, selfish, insecure, undisciplined and self-pitying. Nevertheless, he'll probably get voted in anyway since he jacked up so many shots, no matter how many games he lost in doing so.

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By: kevin http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385&cpage=1#comment-13709 Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:20:02 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385#comment-13709 "He was 5'10", 160 lbs. yet drove in a lot against people who could flatten him easily (and often did). People often use the phrase "pound-for-puund best player ever" when talking about him."

Oh, is that the way this works? OK, inch for inch, Freddie Patek was the greatest baseball player ever.

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By: rav http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385&cpage=1#comment-13423 Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:16:49 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385#comment-13423 What impact did the player have on basketball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? Was his college and/or international career especially noteworthy?

He was 5'10", 160 lbs. yet drove in a lot against people who could flatten him easily (and often did). People often use the phrase "pound-for-puund best player ever" when talking about him.

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By: Gary http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385&cpage=1#comment-9361 Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:27:19 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1385#comment-9361 Allen Iverson was the most exciting player to watch after MJ retired. Period.

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