Comments on: Youth Movements

By: nick

nick — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:58:21 +0000

Speaking of PER, isn't that based on the fact that the league average is always 15.0 for the year. What a year like 2008-09 proves then is that Lebron, Wade, and Paul were simply that farther above the average. It would be interesting to see how their stats would have held up in the late 80's when Jordan was constantly hitting above 30 PER.

By: Harry

Harry — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:37:24 +0000

I think it's useful to point out that other than 2008-2009, there has never been a season in NBA history in which more than one player had a PER of above 30 (http://bit.ly/czR8bG). In 2008-2009, however, three players, LeBron James (31.7), Dwyane Wade (30.4), and Chris Paul (30.0) all accomplished this feat. Obviously, to have three players performing at such a high level in one season is unprecedented. The fact that they were aged 24, 27, and 23 (respectively), for an average age of 24.67, is downright silly.

By: Jason J

Jason J — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:17:55 +0000

Yeah, Penny was brought down by injuries, not by O'Neal. The big fella missed a bunch of games in 1996, and Penny kept them in the running, and they wound up winning 60 games. He was also a blast to watch. Plus he had Li'l Penny - "You can't guard me! The secret service couldn't guard me!"

By: AHL

AHL — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:17:19 +0000

He uses Win Shares to compare across eras. It does a better job than straight ORtg/DRtg, or per game/per minute stats.

By: Johnny

Johnny — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:29:25 +0000

Johnny twisto,

I noticed the FG% drop as well but I don't think all of it is attributed to Shaq. Look at his games without Shaq while he played in Orlando.

93-94: 1 game 8/20 40%, 21 pts, 9 asts, 4 rbs, 4 stls, 1-0 record
94-95: 3 games, 43/71 60.6%, 31 ppg, 5.7 apg, 4.7 rpg, 1.7 spg, 0.3 bpg, 2-1 record
95-96: 28 games, 226/445 50.8%, 25.5, 6.4 apg, 4.9 rpg, 1.96 spg, 0.7 bpg, 20-8 record

Totals: 32 games, 51.7 FG%, (277/536), 25.8 ppg, 6.4 apg, 4.9 rpg, 2.0 spg, 0.7 bpg, 23-9 record

Those are Hardaway's numbers when he was healthy without Shaq. In 96-97 he was a 45% shooter while his injuries wee starting, 97-98 was a wash with injuries, 98-99 he was battling injuries and shot 42%, 99-00 he shot 47%, but then 2000-01 was the year he had the micro fracture surgery which pretty much ended his career at that point at age 30. Hardaway was most likely a 45%-47% FG shooter if healthy without Shaq.

Shaq definitely helped his elite perimeter players (penny,kobe,wade) get open looks but I also think that Hardaway was a very talented player who wasn't just a product of Shaq, as the numbers above show. Injuries are the main thing that derailed his once promising career.

By: sjm8885

sjm8885 — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:20:25 +0000

interesting information but this is definitely skewed towards the mid 90s and beyond due to the increase of early entrants....

By: Johnny Twisto

Johnny Twisto — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 05:56:34 +0000

A few seasons into his career, during the Jordan banishment, Hardaway was one of the names my friends and I threw around when talking about how the best player in the NBA was. The answer was Olajuwon, but Hardaway was in the running....I guess it's nice to see the "advanced" stats show we weren't crazy. I never noticed how bad his FG% dropped after O'Neal left. Interesting.

By: Johnny

Johnny — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:25:56 +0000

Wow, I never knew Penny Hardaway was that good.

By: Ryan

Ryan — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:35:57 +0000

I've asked this a few times but have either missed the response, or not had one. Why are we so persistent in rating a player by Win Shares?

At any rate, nice study.

Mark Price really caught me off guard.