Comments on: BBR Mailbag: Most One-Dimensional Players

By: Rip Wiley

Rip Wiley — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 12:40:31 +0000

Apples and oranges, I know, but I was really expecting to see Bruce Bowen on the 'Defense' list, after all those good Spurs years when he would come at or near the bottom of Hollinger's defense-blind PER rankings. I wonder is Bowen's kind of defensive impact still hard to quantify in Win Shares, or did his corner 3s give him more balance than might sometimes be assumed?

By: Mike G

Mike G — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:30:58 +0000

Reggie Miller = best 1-dimensional player ever

By: AYC

AYC — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 18:19:50 +0000

The X-man!

...surprised to see Chauncey and Joe Dumars on the negative DWS list

By: Willie

Willie — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 17:06:28 +0000

Excellent and Post Neil, and thoughtful to preserve GB's one-liner. I was however slightly disappointed because based on the title of the post I was imagining something looking at players more literally "one-dimensional" IE good at one thing only (the most obvious example to me is Manute Bol). Many of the players on these lists aren't one dimensional at all (Eaton could rebound and block, Nash can shoot and pass etc...) I know very little about statistics but I imagine you could come up with this list by using metrics that rank a characters strength in a particular category relative to some sort of mean of all players and then look for the players with the largest differential between their relative greatness in one category and the rest of their abilities.

By: Neil Paine

Neil Paine — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 12:30:10 +0000

Right, it's far easier to be sub-replacement level on offense than defense, because DRtg values (based heavily on team D) are so much more compressed than ORtg values (based on individual production). Only 66 players have ever had negative DWS in a season: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=AWDUF Compare that to the huge list of players with negative OWS: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=iIII8 Btw, for those looking for a list of 50/50 players, here you go (sorted by proximity to a perfect 50/50 split):

Player	Games	MP	OWS	DWS	WS	%Offense	%Defense
Xavier McDaniel	870	25201	24	24	48	50%	50%
Terry Cummings	1183	33898	46	45	91	50%	50%
Chris Mills	568	17282	19	19	38	50%	50%
Bingo Smith	865	22407	17	17	33	50%	50%
Popeye Jones	535	12579	11	11	22	50%	50%
Bryon Russell	841	19805	24	24	47	50%	50%
Nick Anderson	800	24922	27	28	55	50%	50%
Clarence Weatherspoon	915	27735	29	29	58	50%	50%
Michael Cage	1140	29716	37	37	74	50%	50%
Ben Poquette	718	15763	15	15	30	50%	50%
Robert Parish	1611	45704	74	73	147	50%	50%
Rudy Gay	340	12115	9	9	17	50%	50%
Larry Drew	714	18370	12	12	24	50%	50%
Tim Duncan	997	36165	82	83	164	50%	50%
Danny Schayes	1138	21975	24	25	49	50%	50%
Keyon Dooling	615	11950	7	7	15	50%	50%
Latrell Sprewell	913	35270	28	28	56	50%	50%
Johnny Moore	520	13430	15	15	30	50%	50%

By: Zeiram

Zeiram — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 11:41:41 +0000

I think #28 also explains #28 question, because defense is extrapolated from the team performance even bad defenders won´t quite have a negative or miniscule DWS.

By: Anon x 2

Anon x 2 — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 06:21:19 +0000

@ 27

DJ, partially perhaps, but I think also cuz defense is divided among the teammates.

As a fun fact, I looked up Adam Morrison and he has -3.00 OWS and +1.6 DWS.

By: DJ

DJ — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 05:33:15 +0000

Why is it that there are plenty of defensive players with no offensive value (100%DWS), but no offensive players with no defensive value (100%OWS)?

Is that an artifact of the Win Shares system (and the possibility of a negative OWS)?

Or is it that teams are willing to carry a defender who can't shoot, but not a shooter who can't defend (at least a teeny bit)?

By: Gabe

Gabe — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 03:11:33 +0000

How is it that Jamaal Tinsley has career 0.0 OWS, and 16.5 DWS?

He of the career 38.3 AST%, 8.3 AST/36, and 20.7 USG%. He got some steals, but not really a player known for his defense.

By: Charles Warring

Charles Warring — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 00:57:42 +0000

assists= stats, in last point... as pointed out.. most guards were on the offense list and most big men on the defense list