Comments on: Lost in Translation http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169 NBA & ABA Basketball Statistics & History Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:56:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Mike G http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169&cpage=1#comment-11371 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:18:09 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169#comment-11371 In 1969, teams averaged 43.7 FG per game, of which 53% were assisted.
In 2009, of 37.1 FG/G, 56.5% were assisted.

Assuming .565 of 43.7 FG are assisted, that's another 17.8% added to everyone's 2009 assist rates. So a 7.7 APG player from 2009 could be a 9 APG guy in 1969. Assuming, perhaps, that he took his scorekeeper along on the time machine.

There were 7 players over 7.7 APG this season.

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By: Roy Johnson http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169&cpage=1#comment-11367 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:48:54 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169#comment-11367 I find it very hard to believe that 7 guys in 1969 could have have avg 9 or more APG.

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By: Mike G http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169&cpage=1#comment-11364 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:07:32 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169#comment-11364 Yes to B, for starters.

I'd also suppose a guy who gets 25 PPG with a high TS% would get more shots (and more points) than the guy who scores 25 with lower TS%, when put into the same environment.

How do you account for unknown opponent rebounds in 1969?

What about fewer assists (per made FG) in the '60s? Any adjustment for that?

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By: Neil Paine http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169&cpage=1#comment-11356 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:39:11 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169#comment-11356 I recognize that, Mike, I was just inserting their actual numbers as an illustration -- a point of comparison for the 2009 guys we threw in the "time machine". As for the "yay, progress" remark, A) thanks for the unnecessary snark, and B) I take it to mean this is also how you "normalize" stats across eras?

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By: Mike G http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169&cpage=1#comment-11354 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:04:28 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169#comment-11354 In a neutral environment, Wilt gets the same 21.1 RPG, E gets his 28.4 PPG, and Oscar gets identical 9.8 APG? But in 1969, they didn't get these numbers in equivalent environments.

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By: Mike G http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169&cpage=1#comment-11352 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:55:10 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169#comment-11352 "in the past we simply adjusted for pace, then league... why don’t we worry about the player’s actual context — his team’s stats and those of his opponents?"

Yay, progress.

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By: Jason J http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169&cpage=1#comment-11346 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:09:49 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169#comment-11346 Dave, that's certainly true, and I'm asking a question that doesn't belong on this blog because it's not really numbers-related (if someone can find a way to answer it with numbers, I'll send him a batch of cookies). WHY did they miss so many shots in the '60s? I'd like to say pace, but the pace in the '80s was pretty high as well, and the shooting percentages then were through the roof.

Was it poor shot selection? Were star player usages lower back then, meaning the best scoring options weren't taking a high enough percentage of the shots? Was the game so physical that making a shot was a more difficult proposition? Were the skills or strategies to score over defenses still in a developmental stage and not reliable yet (that might account for why teams tried to shoot early in the clock)? My memory only goes back to the '80s (the late 80's at that), and when I talk to older guys, they never really have an answer for me. In fact they're usually pretty shocked to find out the FG% disparity exists at all.

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By: Dave http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169&cpage=1#comment-11337 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:53:22 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169#comment-11337 Jason, it's a little thing called FG%.

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By: Jason J http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169&cpage=1#comment-11326 Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:16:24 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169#comment-11326 Why do you think it is that the '09 players seem to dominate the scoring and assists so thoroughly but the rebounds still belong to the '69 bigs?

Also, strictly out of fan-geek curiosity, could you average the numbers in multiple seasons to create a more general neutral environment? Would the usefulness of the data hold up when using cumulative league and player seasons? It would be interesting if we could take a long (say 50 season span) and use that to equalize any player seasons (or ranges of player seasons) for one to one comparison. If so that might be sort of a golden goose - sort of an opposite approach to all the metrics that try to measure players from disparate eras against each other by breaking down the box-score stats by estimated possessions.

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By: Neil Paine http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169&cpage=1#comment-11323 Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:35:23 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3169#comment-11323 I should also note that it's 48 "player-minutes" (or 5 * team minutes).

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