Comments on: So Who’s the MIP? http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203 NBA & ABA Basketball Statistics & History Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:56:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Context http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203&cpage=1#comment-17531 Mon, 24 May 2010 18:33:12 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203#comment-17531 WinShares has a lot of team defense in it. The team defense for the Thunder really improved and Durant was a big part of that improvement. The team defense for the Rockets went way down without Yao. Adjust for that to some degree and Brooks would look better on WS this season.

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By: Justin Kubatko http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203&cpage=1#comment-16263 Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:51:05 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203#comment-16263 @29: Thanks, much appreciated.

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By: OBH http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203&cpage=1#comment-16236 Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:35:54 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203#comment-16236 I know this probably looks like a typical douchie comment, but just wanna say I think it's wicked that you give reasonable responses to comments, and obviously give a bit of thought to them. Really respect that, a lot of bloggers either ignore the comments or reply with lame atttempts to make the commenter look like a fool.

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By: Mike G http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203&cpage=1#comment-16181 Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:51:44 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203#comment-16181 "16.1 ppg, 4.3 apg, .404 fg%, .366 3pt-fg% per 36 min in 2009
19.9 ppg, 5.4 apg, .432 fg%, .397 3pt-fg% per 36 min in 2010"

What in all of this is a per 36 min rate?

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By: AYC http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203&cpage=1#comment-16150 Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:59:24 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203#comment-16150 In absolute terms, Brooks has seen a huge improvement in his stats, of course; but even on a per-min basis his unadulterated stats have improved:

16.1 ppg, 4.3 apg, .404 fg%, .366 3pt-fg% per 36 min in 2009
19.9 ppg, 5.4 apg, .432 fg%, .397 3pt-fg% per 36 min in 2010

The rise in scoring,assists, fg% and 3pt% are all significant; the only notable regression I see over the past year is in TO's ( from 2.3/36m to 2.9/36m)

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By: Gabe http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203&cpage=1#comment-16070 Sat, 10 Apr 2010 17:51:43 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203#comment-16070 Fair enough.

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By: Justin Kubatko http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203&cpage=1#comment-16056 Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:48:49 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203#comment-16056 Gabe wrote:

My point with Q-Rich was that he's put up WS/48 numbers similar to this before.

Check out his player page: he's only had one season close to this one, and that came eight years ago with the Clippers. Once again, this is not an example of a player who is bouncing back to previous career norms. Coming into this season, Richardson's career WS/48 rate was 0.070, but he's almost doubling that this season. The vision you have of Richardson might not match what the numbers say, but statistically he's been a below average performer for a majority of his career.

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By: Gabe http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203&cpage=1#comment-16023 Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:26:58 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203#comment-16023 My point with Q-Rich was that he's put up WS/48 numbers similar to this before.

And I did go there to read about SPS, that's where I got the idea from.

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By: Justin Kubatko http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203&cpage=1#comment-16017 Sat, 10 Apr 2010 00:45:05 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203#comment-16017 Gabe wrote:

Given that age/performance curves aren't perfectly known, I think it's tough to really gauge what is typical, especially when you lump all the positions together.

The SPS age adjustment is very conservative, so I don't feel like it would bias the results.

You mean sort of like Quentin Richardson (0.104 WS/48 in 2007) or Jermaine O'Neal (0.177 WS/48 in 2003, 0.155 in 2004), both of whom are on your Top 10 list?

First, I said by using just one season we would "pick up many more cases where a player did not actually improve." Notice that I did not say that my approach eliminates these cases; I just think it produces fewer of them.

Second, no, not like Quentin Richardson or Jermaine O'Neal. Take Richardson, for example. Look at what he did from 2003-2009:

+-------+------+------+-------+
| MP    | ORtg | DRtg | WS/48 |
+-------+------+------+-------+
| 13343 |  103 |  110 | 0.057 | 
+-------+------+------+-------+

His WS/48 was less than the league average in six of those seven seasons, and overall his WS/48 was 43% below the league average. Compare that to what he has done this year:

+------+------+------+-------+
| MP   | ORtg | DRtg | WS/48 |
+------+------+------+-------+
| 1980 |  113 |  104 | 0.131 | 
+------+------+------+-------+

He's producing wins at a rate 31% above the league average. Is this a fluke or real improvement? We can't say for sure, but this is clearly not an example of a player who had one down season and then bounced back to his career norms.

Besides, doesn't SPS take into account the previous years' values?

You can read all about it here.

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By: Gabe http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203&cpage=1#comment-15989 Fri, 09 Apr 2010 18:15:26 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5203#comment-15989 Justin - thanks for the responses. Regarding the ratio, your point is well taken. Regarding pace, I didn't know that, so thank you. For the third item, I had a couple of things I wanted to mention, in response.

"when we're talking about the MIP, we should be talking about a player who has shown significant improvement. In my opinion, a player who has improved by an amount that would be typical for most players his age should not be considered for the MIP award."
Given that age/performance curves aren't perfectly known, I think it's tough to really gauge what is typical, especially when you lump all the positions together. I guess we just can agree to disagree here.

"Second, if we just compare players to their previous season then we are going to pick up many more cases where a player did not actually improve (e.g., a veteran who had a down year the previous season and then bounced back the following season)."
You mean sort of like Quentin Richardson (0.104 WS/48 in 2007) or Jermaine O'Neal (0.177 WS/48 in 2003, 0.155 in 2004), both of whom are on your Top 10 list? Besides, doesn't SPS take into account the previous years' values?

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